[Tokenomics] The elephant in the room - Serum's FDV

While i agree with what you have said, I don’t think it is right to point fingers before hearing the other side’s perspective aswell. However, i do feel that at this point in time, this topic does feel like it is being neglected and ignored on purpose. I am sure someone from the team can take out some time to address this growing concern.

Yes agree. We are all awaiting response from team. But we should also act since there has been no response, very frustrating…

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Maybe the team is busy with the sol event in lisbon. Lets give them the benefit of doubt

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I want to hear about the team too. I want to make sure I haven’t bought a meme coin

Hi everyone. This is a really important topic that should be taken seriously. appreciate your comments and continued feedback. Please keep the discussion civil and productive.

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Thank you @adrian , I hope Serum team can also try to respond to any of our concerns.

I shall make it easy to reply because there has been many points. Please reply in detail to following points. We expect reply from team and VC.

  1. Please give us exact breakdown of where rest 76% supply not for team or sale is allocated. Was the 24% only allocation given to team and outsider investors or was there more? Transparency is most basic expectation for DAO.
  2. How does community move all available SRM token to DAO? Look at Mango Markets and see they have all tokens available in DAO program for community to vote.
  3. Did or will Serum invest in other project for their token? If did, please outline all investments. Does Serum DAO control these investment now?
  4. Please look at posted pie chart and circulating supply and explain how community has any power to vote compared to insider. Compare this with Raydium, Orca, Saber, because they distribute token to community for later DAO. If there is little direct voting power for community, why was this DAO created? Does Serum expect community to always lobby team, VCs, and whales to get any proposal passed?
  5. Please explain why $100M liquidity mining program was announced without official on chain proposal. Community did not agree to announce and write article and tweet on this. Would @daffy announce $100M MNGO program on twitter without proposal?
  6. Please explain how Serum FDV is realistic and write a very simple pitch on why average investors should invest now. I wonder if Serum team has different opinion than rest of Twitter and entire Defi community about Serum FDV.
  7. Please explain why a very large token burn or redistribution with mining is bad for the community considering long term DAO which is not insider controlled. If not bad, would Serum team support this?
  8. Please explain what impact current fee burns have on SRM token replying to what was been said earlier in thread. Also mention how Mango Markets sharing of MSRM will impact burn.
  9. Why has Serum banned users from Telegram because they post very relevant Twitter links? Is this decentralized behaviour?
  10. Does Serum team have secret deal with Atrix or Raydium. If doesn’t have, why did Serum not make Tweet about Raydium’s 4 million SRM grant proposal?

We know Serum is now “DAO” so many of these questions are for community discussion. But if this is a true DAO, Serum team will have honest and detailed response for all these question, otherwise what is the definition of “Serum team”? I hope this thread is not locked by Serum team, thank you.

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I would also like to add to the team to really start thinking about this. Your aim is to further decentralize things, correct? But ‘the community’ owns about 1% of the tokens and the foundation & associates are in control of the other 99%. I hope you see that fundamentally Serum moving towards a DAO is impossible at this stage. The foundation has too much control on the decision-making. In my opinion, the solution is not to keep locking tokens longer. The solution is to get completely rid of the tokens in the first place because it’s not just hyper inflation and an unnecessary excess in money. It’s also ‘control’. Even if that control can be ‘unlocked’ in 10 years and not now. That could makes it even more hurtful for the long-term sustainability of this project. The first step is not to come up with answers, but to accept these issues and together come up with a solution. It is always admitting there is an issue instead of ignoring it. If people can see you are willing to take feedback then they will trust you more.

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Adding my voice to this. It’s tragic how such an incredible project with such great potential is being suppressed by this cloud. This is being felt by the entire community - both supporters and would-be supporters who are still on the sidelines because of these issues. Large twitter influencers are starting to raise these issues. Furthermore, I raised these issues in the ProjectSerum telegram channel and it appears I was banned as moments after I am no longer able to access those channels. Please these issues need to be addressed, rather than being brushed under the rug and community members silenced if that’s what happened to me.

I was banned twice from the telegram group for raising such concerns. I just posted links to tweets where ct influencers were fuding serum and the fdv. How is that fair?

Hi everyone! I saw some discussion about this forum post on Twitter today. Great that the community is being opened so we can all discuss these issues!

To be honest, frankly, I am disappointed in the SRM token’s price compared to the rest of the Solana ecosystem. I know that is not what we are discussing, but the FDV and this very non-decentralized DAO do nothing to help price action.

I would love to get truthful answers from the team, foundation, and even investors for the questions @Defi_Degen and @solsearching have asked. These questions are very important, and if they are not answered, shine a horrible light on the Serum team and their true goals.

Serum team is banning users now we can see. So much for “DAO”. I hope we get a very honest response for every single concern community has and response that is not generic corporate language from Serum team. Will build confidence that I have really lost now. Still awaiting response.

Normally you can’t share links in the tg group, bot will delete it and ban you.

Sorry for that, unbanned. You can always talk about it on places that actively discuss it like the governance channel on discord and more formally here, thank you for the support.

I’ve just seen that there’s a forum, which is great, thx guys for creating this space.
Then I read this topic and in 5 days there was, what, one response from the team that is pretty much generic. That’s not good, considering the importance of questions. I’m pretty sure you must have a CM for a project of this size, so what gives?

edit: another response while I was writing this, so I stand corrected.

Here’s some other things for the Serum team to clarify.

When Atrix made their proposal, the Serum team tweeted about it to let the community know. Then Atrix canceled and made another proposal (which barely anyone knew about), then it passed for 1M SRM. Since it was the first few proposals, alright, maybe the Serum team made a mistake and didn’t publicize the proposals.

Then Raydium made a proposal a few days ago and it also just passed. For 4M SRM! That’s 32 million dollars! I have never, ever, ever, seen $32M of a highly liquid token be transferred on this silently in any DAO. Serum didn’t make a peep about the proposal in voting on Twitter, let alone Discord or Telegram. Who is voting on these proposals with millions of SRM so silently? Take a look at Mango, who make tweets for every single small proposal, meanwhile the Serum team doesn’t care about $32M and would rather make memes in Lisbon.

I’d also like something else to be clarified from the Serum team. Was there seriously nobody on the team that thought a “DAO” where all the supply is controlled by the foundation and VCs isn’t really a DAO? Or maybe it’s that the tokenomics and FDV are good for exit liquidity once team tokens vest?

Let’s look at the tokenomics of two Solana based DAOs:

Mango Markets:

  • DAO - 90%
  • Team - 5%
  • Community - 5%

Serum:

  • Team and Advisors - 20%
  • Locked Seed and Auction Purchasers - 4%
  • Project Contributors - 22%
  • Partner and Collaborator Fund - 27%
  • Ecosystem Incentive Fund - 27%
  • DAO - ??
  • Community - ??

It’s no surprise SRM tokenomics are a joke to everyone outside of the Serum team and VCs bubble: https://twitter.com/defiprime/status/1457498398731354115?s=20

Let me be extremely clear. I’m long SOL and the Solana ecosystem. Some time ago, I used to also be long SRM. I don’t want projects like Serum to make Solana look bad. Solana has enough of a bad rep as it is in terms of decentralization and VCs, let’s not make this worse.

I wish SRM holders best of luck.

Edit: Found this gem. Serum DAO didn’t even vote on this program, let alone approve it. The Serum team and VCs did, which I guess is the DAO. Is saying this even legal?

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And we keep waiting for a single response. Really? Not even a single response after whats been said. Disappointing

What do you want them to say?

Hi community, we have taken a look at your concerns and will be doing a 1B token burn after 7 years. This will make Serum more decentralized and provide good exit liquidity for us. Serum is the backbone of Solana. We take this very seriously. So seriously that we copied FTX’s equity model and applied it to a DAO token, and of course we can apply the same fee model a CEX has to a DEX where programs can share tokens to reduce fees. The SRM/SOL chart? Oh that’s nothing we’re the backbone of that chart.

inb4 thread gets locked, this message gets deleted, and another proposal passes silently by. How can Serum seriously call itself a DAO when amazing DAOs like Mango Markets exist?

This is getting more and more shady. Can anybody from the team at least write something? It’s been 5 days. You don’t have to craft a very high quality PR statement, just communicate…

Hey guys,
I fully agree with what you said about there not being enough SRM in the hands of the community. We were also opposed to doing liquidity mining for the purpose of TVL and our proposal was created with users at the heart of it. The goal is to distribute SRM tokens to more holders and also move more SRM on chain to actually build utility for the tokens. While its unlikely for Serum to burn their tokens, we believe that there is a path forward to realizing this FDV and the first step is to accumulate users who use their tokens on chain and care about the ecosystem.

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Yes!! Response from a project! Community SRM mining is very exciting, and I support it. I think 25% of SRM supply should be for community through mining program. So then community ownership is equal to team and VC after many years. Rest of SRM is inside DAO wallet for community to vote on what happens.

Atrix says a lot about project being 100% Serum AMM, so do you support this and would participate in distributing SRM to community @kaiba ? Are there other Serum projects the community suggest for mining program?

But also awaiting response from Serum team about before questions. Please do not lose focus.

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