[Tokenomics] The elephant in the room - Serum's FDV

Serum has governance, but doesn’t have all the features of a dao yet, right?

If it were a DAO, there could be buybacks of SRM into the DAO treasury. It would also make sense for the DAO to hold other projects that build on Serum.

I agree with the burning of 90% + locked supply and would love to hear some thoughts from the team and big investors like @JumpCrypto about this concern.

Also need some explanations from the team about the DAO sent 1 million SRM to some random person’s private account not program account . And why Raydium and Atrix’s proposal are opposed by everyone on the forum (especially by @JumpCrypto) but still passed.

But let’s think about this for a second. So 24% of 10 billion is 2.4 billion. The current circulating supply is 133 million and total supply is around 1 billion. So the team & VCs own 18 times more of what WE ALL own together right now (around 2.5 billion dollars!!!). So much for ‘decentralization’ and ‘DAOs’. It is insane to be honest and not even sure its fixable at this stage. Especially since the team itself never responds on this issue which is the most concerning part.

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I think someone from the team should come forward and clear things out. That should be the first step. We can decide what to do next

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A problem is, even if all average Serum users decide for a burn, we have no SRM tokens to vote with compared to insiders!! Look at the pie chart, where is the allocation for the community? It is all for team and VCs. We just have to lobby VCs and hope they will listen to community. Is this now the USA government?

Let us say we make proposal to burn rest of locked supply. Then @JumpCrypto will just vote no with millions of SRM, and that is not mentioning Serum team’s tokens and other VCs. And even if the vote passes somehow, who will own most of the SRM supply now? The 24% given to team and VCs will become 90% + of the total supply. Because team and VCs will never agree to burn their own tokens. So Serum is now even less decentralized…

I think one solution is a very large SRM liquidity mining program by projects like Atrix, Raydium, or other. This way voting power will become distributed to the community. Because burn will not work for decentralization unless insiders also burn their tokens, that they won’t do. But insiders won’t agree with this mining program redistribution to the community, because it will lower SRM price and their voting power…

I think it is very very funny how @JumpCrypto writes PhD thesis to Atrix and Raydium for token programs, but not a single small word the average investors when there is a super clear issue. The Serum team can also take only 10 minutes of their day to respond to the community. If they had thought about real DAO decentralization, they would have a response to us, but no response.

Serum right now not even close to a DAO or decentralized. Its not a pure community project like Mango Markets which had equal allocation for team and community. Projects like Raydium, Orca, Saber, is also so much better than Serum because they distribute token to the community, and also have reasonable FDV. So @AlphaRay can you contribute to this discussion? Serum is an insiders token and they have created this mock “DAO” for some reason or another.

Speaking on this forum will do nothing for the Serum community. 99.9% of Defi community does not check this forum. We need to get the word out to the entire DeFi community!! Serum is the largest Defi project by FDV by a lot, so Defi influencers on twitter and youtube will have a lot of say about this discussion, as Serum DAO is right now the least decentralized DAO to exist. We need to organize the Serum community and spread this forum thread to start very public discussion!

@daffy @mschneider can you assist by tweeting this thread to the Solana community? Mango Markets is the best decentralized DAO and it will be good for everyone if Serum realizes they also need to become decentralized for the token to have any value in the future. Maybe we can also contact this Henry_E__ user on twitter from the @garay screenshot. I say we can make a telegram channel to organize and also message Defi accounts on twitter and spread this thread in Solana project discords.

I am putting all of this effort into this forum since I am a long-time SRM hodler. I believe Serum is a good project and so does everyone here. But the lack of decentralization and also no insider communication is a very bad sign for the future of the Serum community. It looks very bad for Serum and all Solana projects. So It is up to us the community to get the word out!!

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While i agree with what you have said, I don’t think it is right to point fingers before hearing the other side’s perspective aswell. However, i do feel that at this point in time, this topic does feel like it is being neglected and ignored on purpose. I am sure someone from the team can take out some time to address this growing concern.

Yes agree. We are all awaiting response from team. But we should also act since there has been no response, very frustrating…

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Maybe the team is busy with the sol event in lisbon. Lets give them the benefit of doubt

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I want to hear about the team too. I want to make sure I haven’t bought a meme coin

Hi everyone. This is a really important topic that should be taken seriously. appreciate your comments and continued feedback. Please keep the discussion civil and productive.

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Thank you @adrian , I hope Serum team can also try to respond to any of our concerns.

I shall make it easy to reply because there has been many points. Please reply in detail to following points. We expect reply from team and VC.

  1. Please give us exact breakdown of where rest 76% supply not for team or sale is allocated. Was the 24% only allocation given to team and outsider investors or was there more? Transparency is most basic expectation for DAO.
  2. How does community move all available SRM token to DAO? Look at Mango Markets and see they have all tokens available in DAO program for community to vote.
  3. Did or will Serum invest in other project for their token? If did, please outline all investments. Does Serum DAO control these investment now?
  4. Please look at posted pie chart and circulating supply and explain how community has any power to vote compared to insider. Compare this with Raydium, Orca, Saber, because they distribute token to community for later DAO. If there is little direct voting power for community, why was this DAO created? Does Serum expect community to always lobby team, VCs, and whales to get any proposal passed?
  5. Please explain why $100M liquidity mining program was announced without official on chain proposal. Community did not agree to announce and write article and tweet on this. Would @daffy announce $100M MNGO program on twitter without proposal?
  6. Please explain how Serum FDV is realistic and write a very simple pitch on why average investors should invest now. I wonder if Serum team has different opinion than rest of Twitter and entire Defi community about Serum FDV.
  7. Please explain why a very large token burn or redistribution with mining is bad for the community considering long term DAO which is not insider controlled. If not bad, would Serum team support this?
  8. Please explain what impact current fee burns have on SRM token replying to what was been said earlier in thread. Also mention how Mango Markets sharing of MSRM will impact burn.
  9. Why has Serum banned users from Telegram because they post very relevant Twitter links? Is this decentralized behaviour?
  10. Does Serum team have secret deal with Atrix or Raydium. If doesn’t have, why did Serum not make Tweet about Raydium’s 4 million SRM grant proposal?

We know Serum is now “DAO” so many of these questions are for community discussion. But if this is a true DAO, Serum team will have honest and detailed response for all these question, otherwise what is the definition of “Serum team”? I hope this thread is not locked by Serum team, thank you.

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I would also like to add to the team to really start thinking about this. Your aim is to further decentralize things, correct? But ‘the community’ owns about 1% of the tokens and the foundation & associates are in control of the other 99%. I hope you see that fundamentally Serum moving towards a DAO is impossible at this stage. The foundation has too much control on the decision-making. In my opinion, the solution is not to keep locking tokens longer. The solution is to get completely rid of the tokens in the first place because it’s not just hyper inflation and an unnecessary excess in money. It’s also ‘control’. Even if that control can be ‘unlocked’ in 10 years and not now. That could makes it even more hurtful for the long-term sustainability of this project. The first step is not to come up with answers, but to accept these issues and together come up with a solution. It is always admitting there is an issue instead of ignoring it. If people can see you are willing to take feedback then they will trust you more.

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Adding my voice to this. It’s tragic how such an incredible project with such great potential is being suppressed by this cloud. This is being felt by the entire community - both supporters and would-be supporters who are still on the sidelines because of these issues. Large twitter influencers are starting to raise these issues. Furthermore, I raised these issues in the ProjectSerum telegram channel and it appears I was banned as moments after I am no longer able to access those channels. Please these issues need to be addressed, rather than being brushed under the rug and community members silenced if that’s what happened to me.

I was banned twice from the telegram group for raising such concerns. I just posted links to tweets where ct influencers were fuding serum and the fdv. How is that fair?

Hi everyone! I saw some discussion about this forum post on Twitter today. Great that the community is being opened so we can all discuss these issues!

To be honest, frankly, I am disappointed in the SRM token’s price compared to the rest of the Solana ecosystem. I know that is not what we are discussing, but the FDV and this very non-decentralized DAO do nothing to help price action.

I would love to get truthful answers from the team, foundation, and even investors for the questions @Defi_Degen and @solsearching have asked. These questions are very important, and if they are not answered, shine a horrible light on the Serum team and their true goals.

Serum team is banning users now we can see. So much for “DAO”. I hope we get a very honest response for every single concern community has and response that is not generic corporate language from Serum team. Will build confidence that I have really lost now. Still awaiting response.

Normally you can’t share links in the tg group, bot will delete it and ban you.

Sorry for that, unbanned. You can always talk about it on places that actively discuss it like the governance channel on discord and more formally here, thank you for the support.

I’ve just seen that there’s a forum, which is great, thx guys for creating this space.
Then I read this topic and in 5 days there was, what, one response from the team that is pretty much generic. That’s not good, considering the importance of questions. I’m pretty sure you must have a CM for a project of this size, so what gives?

edit: another response while I was writing this, so I stand corrected.